brb crying

046: harry baker, heated rivalry, & loving so much it hurts

Share episode

Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.

0:00 | 1:12:52

This week, Arns unpacks “Sunflowers” by Harry Baker and spirals through grief, funerals, and the terrifying urgency of being alive right now.

Meanwhile, Nins dives headfirst into Heated Rivalry, the wildly beloved hockey romance series full of yearning, emotional repression, devastating tension, and men gazing heavily at each other instead of going to therapy.

Basically: two stories about loving people so much it hurts.

In this episode:

  • Harry Baker’s poetry and performance work
  • “Sunflowers,” Wonderful, and Tender
  • Why grief makes ordinary moments feel sacred
  • Heated Rivalry and the rise of hockey romance
  • Emotional repression in sports stories
  • The agony of yearning
  • Why being alive is both beautiful and horrifying

Chapters:

  • 0:00 - Preview
  • 0:33 - Intro
  • 5:13 - Arns: "Sunflowers" by Harry Baker
  • 32:05 - Nins: Heated Rivalry
  • 1:08:56 - Sob story: Justin from Chicago
  • 1:11:22 - Outro

Referenced in this episode:

Join the brb crying community—a heartfelt, cozy comedy podcast about friendship, vulnerability, emotional storytelling, and all the movies, books, music, and life experiences that leave us in tears.

Follow us:
» Instagram: @brbcrying.podcast
» TikTok: @brbcrying.podcast
» YouTube: @brbcrying.podcast

Want episode recaps, behind-the-scenes/community updates, and occasional emotional damage delivered straight to your inbox? Sign up for our newsletter at brbcryingpodcast.com.

Have a sob story or cry recommendation that absolutely wrecked you? We'd love to be wrecked, too. Submit your story at brbcryingpodcast.com or email us at hello@brbcryingpodcast.com.

brb crying—hosted by longtime best friends Nins & Arns—is a podcast where we explore the songs, books, TV shows, films, pop culture moments, and personal stories that help us laugh, cry, heal, and feel a little less alone. Crying is our superpower, and by sharing what makes us cry in a way that makes us laugh, we show how crying helps us connect with ourselves and each other.

Preview

SPEAKER_05

Also, the fr the front of this book. Really bloody good. Couldn't put it down. I laughed, I cried, I took it to the loo with me when I needed a Wii.

SPEAKER_02

And I was like, yeah, I was like, yeah, this is my fucking book. So imagine my surprise when I find myself completely undone by the end of it. Cry babies. It's time we talk about heated rowry.

SPEAKER_05

Um, yeah, leave us a review. We're really funny and cool and um vulnerable.

SPEAKER_04

That's the strongest.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

Intro

SPEAKER_02

This is BRB Crying.

SPEAKER_05

Hello everyone. Welcome back to BRB Crying. I'm Ariana. No. I'm not. That's not your name. Whoa. We're gonna start that again. Cut the cameras.

SPEAKER_06

Cut the cameras.

unknown

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_05

Okay. Hello everyone, and welcome back to BRB Crying. I'm Arnes. And I'm Ninz.

SPEAKER_02

And we are here. We're circling back. We are following up. We are touching base on something that made us cry.

SPEAKER_05

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_02

Here to give you the deets, the juicy tea. But in like a fun, funny, relatable way.

SPEAKER_05

And to piggyback off of that. Um yeah, thank you all so much for being here. You know what I heard the other day? What? Let's triangulate.

SPEAKER_03

I was like, what the fuck? I hate that.

SPEAKER_05

Triangulate. I kind of love it because it's so crazy. What the fuck does that mean?

SPEAKER_03

Circling back. Now we need to triangulate on top of it.

SPEAKER_05

What do you think it means? Like if we could dig into that, do you think it's like because with a circle, it's like you you keep going, right? Yeah, but versus a triangle, you're pausing, you're reflecting at each point. Um you come back, you know. I don't know.

SPEAKER_03

I could we could make it work. It grinded my ears though. That's like crazy. Yeah. That's a crazy word. Whoa. Wow. Triangulate on our tears. That's what we're here to do today. That should be our new catchphrase, I think.

SPEAKER_05

Nah, I wouldn't listen. Yeah. No. I wouldn't either. Um, if you're new here, welcome. If you're old here, welcome back. Cry babies, love to have you. If you don't already follow us, what are you doing? We are at beerbecrying.podcast on all socials. Send us your cry recommendations, any things that made you cry. Rate us five stars, you know, do all the things. This is me plugging us. You gotta be your own biggest fan.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. I already reviewed myself, so I can't do it anymore. I need to leave that responsibility to you if you could do us a favor.

SPEAKER_05

Um, yeah, leave us a review. We're really funny and cool and um vulnerable. Sorry.

SPEAKER_03

That's the strongest. Yeah. We are two things. Cool. What did you say? Funny, cool, and vulnerable. Okay, we're three things. Yeah. Funny, cool, and vulnerable. Yes. What's up? Let's move on. How are you? I'm good. Yeah. Just I I feel like neutral today.

SPEAKER_05

Okay. Which is like a great place to be. You know? You know what I mean? Yeah. There are definitely worse places to be than neutral. It's a Monday.

SPEAKER_02

We're recording on a Monday today. And it's like, uh, okay.

SPEAKER_03

You know? Yeah. She's so happy to be here, guys. She can't wait. I've I've come here with worse energy, you know? So I'm in a neutral, I'm in a neutral place.

SPEAKER_05

I love coming here with like a pounding headache. I can hardly see straight, and I'm like trying to read off my fucking iPad. Crazy. Uh how about you? I'm a little hot right now. Spring weather. This is a bit thick.

SPEAKER_02

Are you hot? But you know what?

SPEAKER_05

We're here for the vibes, so we can't change. Yeah. No. I like your little clips today. Thanks. They're saunas. Oh. They're like a gift from the Philippines, and I was rifling through it. And she doesn't like putting clips in her hair, so I was like, okay, well, I'm gonna put these little lemon clips in my hair.

SPEAKER_02

Oh, is that what they are? I'm gonna wear my glasses.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah, I can't see. They're yellow blobs.

SPEAKER_02

I love it.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah, they're they're lemons. Yeah, I'm I'm chilling.

SPEAKER_00

Right?

SPEAKER_05

That's just like, okay. We're here to do the thing. Yeah. But you know, whenever I feel this way, I feel like we always end the recordings feeling like, yeah, that was good.

SPEAKER_02

Even when I'm in a shitty, like shitty state of mind, I always like feel better after. Yeah. So we're already like a leg up. Yeah. You know? Yeah. Yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_05

Should we do it? Do it. Yeah.

unknown

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_05

What the fuck is happening? Okay. I swear to God, we're really happy to be here. We really are. Sure, just roll the transition case. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

unknown

Yeah.

Arns: "Sunflowers" by Harry Baker

SPEAKER_05

Alright, I have to begin my story today with an announcement. I recently did something huge. Monumental. Maybe one of the craziest things I've ever done in my life. I quit my job.

unknown

Ah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah. I heard about that. You heard about this. Crybabies, not tea for nin, but maybe tea for you. If you're looking for like the drama, I'm sorry to disappoint you. It was not because of any ill will. Because they kept saying, let's triangulate on this. I had to leave because of the triangles. It was it was too much. Um, there was no storming out, no slamming doors. In fact, it was actually quite the opposite. It started out as this nagging feeling that honestly I felt a long time ago, way before this job, too. I've always known that being in accounting and finance, not my jam.

SPEAKER_03

Really?

SPEAKER_02

You didn't feel like this is why I'm on this earth. Play around with this little spreadsheet.

SPEAKER_05

No, you know, some people though genuinely love it. From the beginning, I was always just complaining. Like, you know, I was always the one who was like, this is so boring, you know, and everyone's like, shut the fuck up, I'm here to do my job, right? Like, we all know. Anyway, so this was a very long time coming. Me exiting the corporate world. But of course, I stifled that. And once we started this podcast, that was when I knew I was like, oh, this is the thing. Because I was like, I want to leave, but what what am I gonna do? Like, what is the thing? This is the thing. But I was still unwilling to let go of my nine to five, the steady paycheck. And it wasn't until the past few months when my intuition told me that there's something more and I can't ignore it anymore. But the catch was I had to be the one to make the first move. I had to show the universe that I was ready to take a chance on myself, and I couldn't wait anymore to start living how I want to live, and to start filling my days with what I love and nothing else. So I left. During my last week of work, there were a lot of emotions, lots of grieving, lots of processing. And then at the end of February of this year, I was done. But of course, I couldn't stay away long. After five years at this job, these people had pretty much become like my family. So just one month later, I was back to visit. Got some bagels, got some cream cheese, you know. And during the team meeting that they they happened to be having when I went, my old boss gave me a belated going-away gift that came right after I left. And so she was just waiting for me. Which I'm like, wow, like she knew I was gonna come back and visit because she just like had it ready. And it was a book of poems titled Wonderful by Harry Baker. And she read a poem from the book and said, and I quote, I better get featured on your podcast. So hey Teresa, you're featured. Because today I am going to talk about one of those poems called Sunflowers. But first, some context. Let me get the book. Wonderful. Wonderful by Harry Baker. Yeah, it's wonderful. All right, so per Harry Baker's author's note at the beginning of the book, he writes Harry Baker is a poet and maths graduate based in Margate. He became the world poetry slam champion in 2012 and has been the people's champion ever since. He's a big fan of playfulness and vulnerability, and tries to combine both in his work as much as in his day-to-day life. When I read that, I was like, playfulness and vulnerability. Do we need to fly him out here and have him on the podcast? Well, no, because we're only cool, funny, and vulnerable. That's true. Oh my god. It's really not. Never mind. No overlap. Um, and then in the intro of the book, he writes As much as I think every writer aspires to improve on a technical level, the thing I have really been putting the hours into is cultivating my sense of wonder to not just be amazing, but to be amazed. I was like, also, the the front of this book. You know there's quotes on the front of books from other people. Really bloody good. Couldn't put it down. I laughed, I cried, I took it to the loo with me when I needed a Wii. And I was like, yeah, I was like, yeah, this is my fucking book. Also, that sounds so British. Give it to me. Everything is so British about this. You will love it. You will. Um, so Harry Baker states that his work is best experience in person. But we're a little tied up right now. You know, we can't really fly to, you know, the UK. So I figure the next best thing is showing you one of his performances on YouTube. This is a love poem about prime numbers. Remember, he's a math, a maths graduate. It's a love poem about prime numbers titled 59. So, on top of being really talented, great writer, he's so smart. It's too much. Okay.

SPEAKER_03

There's really no overlap there.

SPEAKER_05

No, I don't know what to tell. There really isn't. So, okay, we're gonna pause here. We're gonna watch the first four minutes of it's a Ted X talk, and this is him performing his poem. I will link this in the show notes. Cry babies. Alright, so I just played for Nin's a little four-minute video of Harry Baker performing his poem, 59. So in this video, we catch some of Harry's vibes. Charming, playful, and the best part of his intro, like he doesn't sound like every fucking, you know, like the Ted X or the Ted talk, how they're all like, God, I just saw this video where they were just like making fun of how Ted Ted like like they say catchphrases, right? Like God.

SPEAKER_03

And my eyes immediately glaze over it. Yeah. See, the thing is, every single one of you.

SPEAKER_05

Anyway, but yeah, charming, playful. And after his introduction, he performs the poem titled 59. In this poem, the number 59 has a crush on the number 60. But 60 thinks he's odd. But eventually he meets 61 and realizes that actually number 61 is his true love. This is a very short excerpt. 61 was clever, see, not prone to jealousy. She looked him in the eyes and told him quite tenderly, You're 59, I'm 61. Together we combine to become twice what 60 could ever be. At this point, 59 had tears in his eyes, was so glad to have this one-of-a-kind girl in his life. He told her the very definition of being prime was that with only one in himself could his heart divide. When I was listening to this, I was like, oh my God, I need to listen to this again. Like it's so clever. It's so fucking smart. And again, crybabies, I link this in the show notes. It's only four minutes long. But clearly, he's a genius. But the best part is that he's just as heartwarming. Like his content and what he's what he's sharing, what he's writing is just as heartwarming as it is clever. And another thing I love about Harry Baker, his social media. He's so funny. So British. You know how the you know how we always talk about how like British people are the fucking funniest people ever? Every British person. So funny. He is no exception. In fact, I feel like him being so smart just like amplifies the humor a little bit. He recently posted a video on Instagram about how some journalist attended one of his gigs. They reached out to him and so he gave him a free ticket. But in this unexpected twist, the journalist fucking obliterated him. Obliterated Harry. He was like, I don't see what the big deal is about. Yeah, no. Oh, yeah. It was weird, right? Okay. And so in this video, Harry's like walking outside and just talking to the camera, talking about like how much you know this journalist like shitting on him. A bird fucking shits on his shoulder. Crazy, crazy. And then like in the end of the video, he's talking about like the article came out on Good Friday. So he was like, even though the article came out on Good Friday in an attempt to editorially crucify me, I too, like Jesus, will rise again.

SPEAKER_03

Who is he? Also fuck this journalist. Yeah. But like thanks for giving him content. No, no, literally, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_05

But all this to say, I'm a little bit in love with Harry Baker. Yeah. Smart, talented, funny, empathetic. British. British. So funny, so funny. He also happens to have his own podcast called Something Borrowed, where it's more of like a live show format where he happens to record it and he'll invite other poets and artists to come. And it's usually filmed live in Margate where he's from. And they'll talk about like something old, something new, something borrowed, and something blue. Like they'll recite like old poetry or like a new piece or something like that. So that is on Apple and Spotify. And I will also link that in the show notes if anyone wants to check it out. So I could keep going about this man, but I feel like the best way for you to get to know him is again through his work. So I'm going to play you a couple more of his performances. The first one is a more recent poem. Harry is a new dad. So of course, of course, he wrote new content. A hundred poems for the first a hundred days of his son's life. Got it.

unknown

Like, what the fuck?

SPEAKER_05

What the fuck did my mom do? What the fuck did my parents do? Okay, so these poems are encapsulated in his newest book called Tender, which was just released in February 2026. So the poem I'm gonna play for you is about one of those really hard days that you have in early parenthood. It's titled, There's no use crying over spilled milk. It's about a minute and a half long, and I will link this in the show notes too. I'm playing this on uh this is from his Instagram page. So I'm gonna read a little snippet. But even on God.

SPEAKER_02

Should I take out like a stringed instrument while you read this?

SPEAKER_05

The thing is, the hard part about writing this story, I was just crying, it was just nonstop tears. Okay. Every time I would watch one of his videos, especially the ones on new parenthood. So I'm gonna read a little snippet. I'm gonna hold it together. This isn't even like my story. Like this isn't even the thing I'm gonna talk about. Okay. But even on those why is this so hard? But even on those days when your mom is unsettled, because I am unsettled, because you are unsettled. When I love you feels like a plaster. When a hug feels like an IO you. Even on those days, you and I get to have a bath together, and we both get to use our favorite towels. And you are your croc sleepsuit that is so thick you pass out in a starfish position. And I love you so much that I could burst. That's it. That's all I'm gonna read.

SPEAKER_04

And I'm not gonna say anything else about it. We're gonna move on.

SPEAKER_05

Okay. So the second performance I want to show you is of a poem titled Wonderful, which is the name of the book, and it's the last poem featured in the book. This is the poem that my boss read an excerpt from when she presented me with the book. And that's the moment she started reading it out loud, I was like, yeah, I'm gonna talk about this on the podcast.

SPEAKER_03

So it's the first she had a whole plan. She played the long game here.

SPEAKER_05

She was like, Okay, so it's the first poem Harry ever wrote for his son when he found out his wife was pregnant. I don't need to hear like just No, no, no. This one, this one is not as This one's not as heavy. It's yeah. It's about two and a half minutes long. I'm just gonna I'm just gonna play it for you. I'm just gonna play it for you.

SPEAKER_00

She read that to you. The fuck?

SPEAKER_05

Like in front of people. Yeah, at the beginning of the team meeting. She's like, oh, I'm just gonna read this little poem. I was like, uh, okay. I'm just gonna share really quick some of my favorite lines from this. Really short, really shorts in a bit. And when it all feels too much and there is little you can do, may you still see the best in people, and may people include you. All right, all right, let's just get to it. God, am I even gonna read these words? If I had it my way, we would just sit here and watch three hours of performances.

SPEAKER_02

This meeting could have been an email.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah, yeah. But I do hope that these give you a sense of his work.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. God, so good. I know, I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_03

I'm being very like angry about this, but obviously it's very beautiful. Yeah. If you're new here, just how do you do it? You get used to it. We talk shit about things we really love. It's like a quirky thing we do. And like when people do like amazing, incredible gestures, I sit there like, what the fuck? Yeah, we're like, we're like, shut the fuck up.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah. Um, but I I wanted to show you specifically his performances because it is true, it is different when he's the one sharing his words. It's so magical when someone is sharing their words the way they were meant to be shared. All right, so now we're gonna get into today's poem. It's called Sunflowers. In the intro, Harry Baker says that his wife's grandparents had recently passed, so he's been going to a lot of funerals, and it made him think about what he wants to happen when he dies. So, as an FYI, I'm going to read most of the poem, but I will probably omit a few passages just for brevity. So if you want to listen to or watch the whole thing, I will link it in the show notes. I'm not gonna do it in a British accent. I'm so sorry. I know you're really hoping I would. Sunflowers by Harry Baker. Ideally, I would like a hundred benches, every single one of them facing the sea. If that's too much faff, I'd settle for the one somewhere in Margate. Somewhere you can come and sit and think and be. I don't need a fancy pot to keep my ashes. Just find a decent spot where there's a breeze. So the next time someone gasps at all the wonder in the world, a part of them is breathing in a part of me. At my funeral, I'd like there to be sunflowers. A truly inconvenient amount. For I too will have spent a lifetime searching for the light, and I don't see a reason why that should stop now. Don't let anyone apologize for crying. It is honestly my favorite thing to do. Just make sure everybody knows how much I loved being alive. The only thing that I loved more was loving you. Speaking of which, if you are free, then I would love for you to be there. But if you can't, because you're dead, that's not your fault. To be honest, neither of us quite makes sense without the other. I still think we'd die together like a cult. And if anybody says I have gone to a better place, that is a kind and very well-intentioned lie. For there can be no better place than in a room with all my friends. Just promise we'll do this again, the other side. Side note, let's also do this loads before we die. And by the time it comes around, maybe I'd hate it, but I'd live for ages, and my taste will change with time. But one thing that I know I will always find amazing is what a thing it is to live a life. P.S. Let's also do this loads before we die. As you can imagine, this is a very popular funeral poem. I would say most of us try not to think about our own deaths, let alone the logistics of our funeral. We're always too busy trying to figure out how to live to bother worrying about what comes after. It's also kind of uncomfortable, and like practically speaking, it's like I'm not even gonna be there. Like, why do I wanna, you know, why do I wanna like think about this? But Harry Baker's approach to his imagined funeral is gentle and playful, and actually not very much about him. It's not like I'd like a 12-minute slideshow of all of these photos of my life and dozens of flower arrangements with the ribbon across saying who donated them for the cause. You know how it is at funerals. Instead, it's seeing the world through his eyes, feeling all the things that he felt, searching and finding wonder everywhere you look, just like he did. Ideally, I would like a hundred benches, every single one of them facing the sea. I don't need a fancy pot to keep my ashes, just find a decent spot where there's a breeze. So next time someone gasps at all the wonder in the world, a part of them is breathing in a part of me. At my funeral, I'd like there to be sunflowers, a truly inconvenient amount. For I too will have spent a lifetime searching for the light, and I don't see a reason why that should stop now. Just those passages alone, I was like, the what? Like, come on, what are we doing? God, like the sunflower metaphor. Yeah. I fuck is this? What is this? I was like, I could write an essay about like what an incredible metaphor. But then I was like, like, what an insult that I would be using like a thousand words to say what he said so beautifully.

SPEAKER_04

In 20. In 20.

SPEAKER_05

Exactly, exactly. In the middle passages, he's kind of joking about like the music, dynamite by Tyo Cruz, and like the readings and like serving vegetables and stuff. Like if I have to pretend like it's what you. But then he kind of rounds it out by coming back to the living and how death gives us a reason to celebrate how we lived and what we lived for and who we lived for. Don't let anyone apologize for crying. It is honestly my favorite thing to do. Just make sure everybody knows how much I love being alive. The only thing I loved more was loving you. Every day we are finding millions of ways to not be present. Maybe it's like an existential crisis one day. Like, am I leaving my mark? You know, like am I doing something that's worth remembering? Or maybe it's like lamenting about something that's passed, something that you regret, something that you like going over it in your mind, like wishing you did it differently. Or maybe it's literally just like thinking about your to-do list and all like the millions of things you have to get done. But whatever it is, Harry Baker's words pull us out of that orbit, even just for a moment, like even just for the duration of this poem. First, with death, because there's nothing like mortality that makes you zoom out and remember, oh, that's right, this is what actually matters. And then second, by bringing us quite literally back to life. Towards the end of the poem, Harry writes, and if anybody says I have gone to a better place, that is a kind and very well-intentioned lie. For there can be no better place than in a room with all my friends. Just promise we'll do this again the other side. Side note, let's also do this loads before we die. I I love this because it's like he's saying, Yes, yes, I know we're here to talk about death, but can we just like can we go on to the life part? Can we come back to the living? Because there's so much magic right here, right now. So much magic just being surrounded by people you love. So much magic in being able to bask in it as it's unfolding. It's inevitable as humans, you know. Well, of course we're gonna get caught up in the existential crises, the regrets, the to-do lists. But how can we live in such a way that the primary objective of our day-to-date is just like being present, being here? Maybe it's as dramatic as quitting your nine-to-five, deciding to bet on yourself, trusting in the universe, or maybe it's as simple as making the conscious choice to exist beyond our worries and instead to soak in that magic of right now. Because there are a million things that I could worry about right now. What's my daughter gonna eat when she wakes up from her nap? Where am I gonna take her on this whole week that she's on spring break and I have to like entertain her? Like, there's so many things that's running on in the background of my mind. But what if I could just accept that the worries will always be there and just enjoy like being on this couch sitting across from my best friend in the whole world, like pouring our hearts out to each other, marveling that we get to exist in this universe again. Harry said it best, for there can be no better place than in a room with all my friends. Just promise we'll do this again the other side. Side note, let's also do this loads before we die. So thank you, Harry Baker, for sharing the gift of your words. You are an extraordinary poet, but an even more extraordinary human. And for all of you listening, I hope I hope this pulls you out of your orbit even for a little bit and helps you also remember like what are the things that that we're really truly living for.

SPEAKER_02

That was wonderful. Yeah. I was thinking after you had read the 59 poem, I was like thinking, I love how he is a maths major. Like what graduate, he did graduate smart dude. But what I love about that is like there are people walking around this earth that are so fucking smart. They can pull, you know, facts off the top of their head, they can explain really complex systems and whatever. But I think that what matters is like being able to have all this knowledge and then pull out like meaning. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05

Like purpose, genius. And for me, that is the genius to be able to take the fucking the hard facts and the reality and to like make it this love poem. Yeah. And like like to use it as a tool to like to create art? Yes, it's it's too much for my little brain, it's too much for me. Yeah, it's beautiful, yeah. I know.

SPEAKER_02

Do you love when people can convey we already said this, can convey things in one tenth of the time it would take us to do it.

SPEAKER_05

Listen, I've never been succinct. Why change? You know? Cool, funny, vulnerable.

SPEAKER_02

That's it. That's it. I I also do want to give a huge shout out to your coworkers whom I've not met, but I feel like I know them because of how much you talk about them and how much love you clearly have for them. And you've always told me how supportive they've been for you on this journey for us and this show. But I think that's such a beautiful thing that they have been part of the reason why you enjoy life so much. Yeah. And Sharice was like, and don't you forget it. Yeah. Shout out Teresa. Shout out Charice. Like, what a wonderful boss to have been able to work with.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah. And I felt so seen when she shared this with me because I was like, oh, she really does understand me. Like she knows that like this is something that would touch me.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, that's a beautiful thing.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah, it really is. I am so grateful. And that's why I made it so hard to leave because it's not like I was leaving a toxic place. Like it was having to say bye to people you love. You know? But you're right. Like when I think of that passage of just being in a room with the people you love, like they're there too.

SPEAKER_02

Like that's them. Yeah. Yeah. It's a great thing. And I'm really happy that you have people like that in your life. Yeah. Thanks. Love you guys.

SPEAKER_05

Miss you guys. Yeah. He's on tour right now for his new book, Tender. They're all in the UK.

SPEAKER_02

I'm like, well, he can send us an invite. We can go to the show and then he can talk major shit about this podcast.

SPEAKER_01

I'll take the press. Fuck it.

SPEAKER_05

Oh my god. A gift of a man. Shout out. Shout out Harry Baker. I'm gonna see you live one day. Mm-hmm. Meet it. Our emails are in the show notes. If you want to send us some tickets, watch. It's like $100 for the ticket, but we have to like pay like $1,200 to get to the UK.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, it's fine. Worth it. I'm not worried about that. I'm just in the moment, you know? Yeah. I'm living now.

SPEAKER_05

Living now.

Nins: Heated Rivalry

SPEAKER_02

Okay. Long one today. Okay. God, this took me, I don't know why it took me so long to write. Like, I think there was just a lot that I had to first consume. And then I was like, oh my God, what what do I even say? You know? Yeah. Yeah. It's like, holy shit. And then I had to like sit on my lap. You know, like, I don't know. It just was so hard to pull this story out of me, but it so needs to be talked about. Okay. All right. So here I go. Every once in a while, the world is blessed with a TV show. Okay. That shakes pop culture with such a tour de force that for a moment in time, it is all anyone can think about or talk about or post about. It's to me, it's like one of the best things about having internet. Because like you'll watch the thing and then you'll like go online and like the memes that come from TV, it's better than therapy sometimes. In those moments where I'm scrolling, living in the moment scrolling. I'm healed, you know? Healed. Okay. Moments from TV shows that I still remember watching for the first time. The first one, the first one that came to mind was Kelly Clarkson winning American Idol. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

You know what I mean? Yes. Like we were what? Eight? Eight. Yeah. You still fucking remember. I remember exactly where I was what I was doing. Uh season finale of friends. I don't think you were big friends, girly. I wasn't, but um, but I remember, I still remember the finale though. You know? Red Wedding, Game of Thrones.

SPEAKER_01

I was gonna say that was the one that came to mind. Was it? Yeah. Okay.

SPEAKER_02

I was gonna ask you, like, fuck that shit, dude.

SPEAKER_05

That fucked me up.

SPEAKER_02

But like all of these iconic moments from these legendary shows, when you watch them, you're so affected, you never forget it or how it made you feel. So today I want to talk about one such show that has been a sweeping sensation since its release. I genuinely cannot overstate like how successful and how popular the show has been. And to be honest, I'm a little late to the game here. And if I'm being really honest, I did not seek out to watch the show because I thought I could make a story out of it. I see. I was like, I just want to know what everyone's talking about on TikTok. Yeah, I was just curious about it. The people looked really hot. I thought, great, I I can hop on this train. Sure. So I knew almost nothing about the show, got myself ready to watch this low stakes, fun, spicy little story about two queer hockey players. So imagine my surprise when I find myself completely undone by the end of it. Cry babies. It's time we talk about heated rowry.

SPEAKER_05

I knew it. I haven't watched this yet. I know. I intentionally was not yet because someone told me, like, you gotta watch it. You're gonna cry so hard. And I was like, I'm not ready. No one fucking told me this. I knew that, yeah. No one fucking told me this. I was like, okay, look. I almost watched it with the intention of talking about it, but then I was like, ah, that sounds hard. Yeah. So thank you. I actually am going to watch it though. Like, this is very much on my list to watch. I've just been. No, I swear to God. I swear to God. I swear. Okay, sure. How about we watch the first episode after we record? Okay.

SPEAKER_03

Like, well, you're gonna know what's gonna repeat. This is really on my list of fuck.

SPEAKER_04

All right, that's fine.

SPEAKER_02

Okay. All right. Sources for today, aside from the show, is the book on which it's based. Um, 2019 novel by the same title Heated Rivalry by Rachel Reed, a 2023 Washington Post article by Rachel Cursius, and an article for Episodic Medium by Miles McNutt. Okay. You know, before we jump in, I gotta edgy with that context. Yep. All right. Heated Rivalry, the TV show, is an adaptation from the 2019 novel written by Canadian author Rachel Reed. It is part of a larger game changer series, which began in 2018 and primarily focuses on different queer stories within the world of professional hockey. In this 2023 article by The Washington Post entitled Hockey Romance Novels Are in the News. Here's why they're so popular. Rachel Reed was asked what inspired her to write the series. Now, obviously, she is Canadian. Shout out Canada. By the way, our favorite country. Fucking love Canada. Vegas fans. She's Canadian, so we know she likes hockey too. From what I've heard. Maybe dabbles. So it makes sense that her love for writing and her love for hockey morphed into this project of hers. But she says, quote, game changer came from a place of me being angry at hockey culture and how clearly homophobic it was and is, and all the other things that made me really ashamed to be a hockey fan. That whole series attacks the NHL and hockey culture quite a bit. An attack she does. But from the ashes of the alpha male toxicity she so eloquently takes down comes a series of stories showcasing men being tender, vulnerable, and emotional. Insert big shock as to why this resonates with so many women. So weird. What? Yeah. Yeah. So the TV adaptation, literally a day after the Washington Post article I referenced came out back in 2023. Canadian actor, director, screenwriter, producer Jacob Tierney reached out to Rachel Reed, the author, and was like, I need to make this into a show. And I just want to highlight Jacob Tierney here for a second because I have not read this book. I have not read anything within the Game Changer series. I'm solely going off of my experience watching this show. But from what I've gathered from fan reactions and people who are big fans of the book, it sounds like Jacob Tierney understood Rachel Reed's story and these characters so intimately that he knew exactly how to bring it to life. He really, really advocated for the authenticity to the story and just created magic, basically, on the show. So in January 2025, the show was finally greenlit by Canadian streaming platform Crave and Bell Media. And then in November of 2025, Heated Rivalry is released on both Crave and HBO. Q worldwide phenomenon. Okay, plot. Obviously, spoilers, blah blah blah blah. Let's puck and go. Wow. She really said that. So Heated Rivalry focuses on two professional hockey players, Shane Hollander and Ilya Rosnoff. Shane Hollander, played by Hudson Williams, is the Canadian golden boy. Half Japanese, half white, goody two shoes, who is deeply loved and sheltered by his super involved, happily married parents. What is that like? Serious, disciplined, uptight, often described as boreding by Ilya. He's also endearingly awkward, and despite being one of the greatest hockey players of his generation, really insecure in social settings, but like so nice. Like every time he gets ragged on, he's one of those people where like his only quit back is fuck you. I can hear it. Fuck you. You know? Like not funny or like quick, but he's boring and we love it. Yeah. Also, I looked up his supposed birthday, May 10th. Taurus. Taurus. Yeah, it's like grounded, you know. Makes sense. Then we have Mr. Ilya Horosenoff. Terrible Russian accent, by the way. Russian hockey's bad boy. June 15th. Gemini. This dude is nuts. Okay. Born to a powerful but whack as fuck family in Moscow, Ilya lives a very privileged life. But his relationship with his brother and his dad are very, very complicated. So to bury that pain, Ilya projects this incredibly cocky, douchey, bad boy persona that you can only get away with if you're one of the fucking goats in hockey. Very good. Or so I hear. He smokes, he parties, he's a bit of a playboy and has a reputation for being a ladies' man. In the first episode, we see Shane and Ilya meet at this International Prospects Hockey Championship final between Canada and Russia. It's like the big tournament right before they get drafted to play professionally. They are the best players on their respective teams and therefore the top two picks for the upcoming draft. Six months later, Ilya is drafted first to the Boston Raiders, and Shane is picked up second by the Montreal Metros. And Shane is like a little butthurt about this because Ilya always seems to just beat him. And the world starts to notice this as they both begin to play professionally, this budding rivalry between these two rookies. So throughout the first episode, they meet each other a few times during the season. There are some furtive glances and a palpable sexual tension during a joint workout at a hotel gym. I can't wait to watch this. God damn it. You snooze, you lose. You know what? It really is my fault. I really did snooze. They play each other throughout the season as well. So they see each other at games, they also see each other at events, the life of a celebrity, you know?

SPEAKER_05

Yeah, it's hard.

SPEAKER_02

At the end of this episode, I'll just jump to the chase. I got five more episodes to cover. They start hooking up. Ooh, okay. In secret. Then over the next three years, they have a little situation ship. Sexting back and forth, meeting up whenever they're scheduled to play against one another. Three years. I w I would go crazy.

SPEAKER_01

I would lose my fucking mind, actually. Are you out of your mind? Okay.

SPEAKER_02

I do want to pause here for a second and talk about. The explicit sex scenes that are part of this story and this show. Since the start of humanity, we have been obsessed over the salaciousness of sex. Did you know it sells what you don't say? It gets people talking. We know this. But even so, the novelty of watching gay sex in mainstream media is still new to a lot of audiences. So the discourse around it, I feel, has almost overshadowed what the show is actually doing, which is showing male intimacy as something tender and vulnerable and deeply human, not just physical. And I really want to highlight the way that Jacob Tierney, the creator, crafted these sex scenes, not at all gratuitous or for the sake of just getting people all horned up, which I will admit is a byproduct. But um, in fact, the most nudity that we see on the show is just ass. Incredible ass, though, by the way. Can we just say, can we just put it out there? Connor's story sculpted by God herself. Okay. But again, I do want to emphasize this point that these intimate moments that we see between Shane and Ilya are so much more than horn dog smut. These scenes reveal who these characters are deep down. In an article for Episodic Medium, the creator, Jacob Tierney, says, Sex is character development. It's not just a random sex scene in every episode. They learn about each other and they learn about themselves through this. For Shane, we see him navigating this uncharted territory, having never done this with another man before. And here is Ilya offering him safety and security through it all. For Ilya, with each meeting, more and more of his protective shell becomes undone until sex becomes not a physical act, but an intimate one. But we're not there yet. We're only three years into this situationship. At this point, for Ilya, these clandestine meetings are strictly an escape and a distraction from the perils of his real life. During the off seasons, Ilya has to go back to Russia. His father, a former police officer, is super controlling and demanding of Ilya. And his piece of shit, older brother, basically demands that Ilya fund their entire family's lifestyle, which for his brother includes a lot of coke. Nice. It's not. We don't like that. It's complicated and messy and lonely, but it's like not really in line with like Ilya's brand. So he doesn't talk about it. Doesn't go to therapy. It's fine. It's fine. It's fine. It's fine. But whenever Shane attempts to know Ilya beyond just his body, Ilya shuts down and pushes him away. I want to show you a couple of scenes highlighting this hot and cold dynamic. This first scene is the end of episode one. At the end of their rookie season, Shane and Ilya are at an awards show. Shane wins Rookie of the Year, and Ilya ignores him all night at the after party. Shane thinks that Ilya is just being a sore loser, but really Ilya's thinking about how now that the season is over, he has to go home in a few days.

SPEAKER_00

So again, this is at the end of episode one. I'm just gonna keep going. Keep going.

SPEAKER_02

I'm just gonna keep going. Um, okay. So I'm gonna introduce another scene for you. In episode two, we actually spend a lot of time in Russia. Never been. Uh there's like the Winter Olympics in Sochi, and then this whole offseason. So all this time that Ilya is back home really messes with him, and he's just like not himself. So he basically stops responding to Shane for like six fucking months. Like just straight up ghosts him. Shane is like, what the fuck? Like, again, I I'd lose my mind. I'd lose my fucking mind. And there are even moments during the Olympics when Shane is just trying to offer any sort of olive branch, like even just checking in to see if he's okay, like just purely from a friendship platonic stance. And even then, Ilya just rejects every attempt. So Shane is like, okay, bye. Yeah, I guess. So I want to play you this next scene where after six months of basically silence, Shane and Ilya finally reunite at the next season's award show where they have to present together and they finally talk when they run into each other in the bathroom.

SPEAKER_00

This is about halfway through episode two. Okay.

SPEAKER_02

So in this scene, after they present at this award show, Shane goes to collect himself in the bathroom because what the fuck? He just saw his ex-situation shit. Understandable. I would throw up. Okay. Ilya finds him, and they have this heated exchange in the bathroom. Shane is so clearly upset, like, where the fuck have you been? How could you just drop me like that? And Ilya is again guarded, kind of laughing it off. Doesn't tell him what's been really bothering him, but in his own way, he apologizes in the form of dirty talk, yes. But underneath that, you know, and Shane knows, what he's really saying is, I'm sorry, I missed you. So now I'm gonna jump to fucking three more years of this back and forth. They started hooking up in 2010. At this point, it is now 2016. Nice. Again, I'm fucking crazy. Okay, they are still doing this shit. Shane is in Boston playing against Ilya, and while he's in town for the weekend, he is invited to visit Ilya at his Boston home. And after six fucking years of hooking up, the two actually decide to spend the whole day together instead of just going home in the middle of the night as soon as they're done. They start doing things that they have never done before, like sharing a meal together, talking to one another for more than five minutes. They actually just hang out. And while they're chilling on the couch, watching TV, Ilya pulls Shane to rest on his chest. One thing leads to another, and they have a little hanky panky on the couch. But it's not hanky panky because this time they're holding one another, caressing each other's faces, looking into each other's eyes for the first time ever. Instead of calling each other Hollender and Rosanolf, they call each other by their first names. Shane, Ilya. In the aftermath, overcome by his feelings, Shane is immediately like, yo, what the fuck? Ref timeout, okay? Too much. It's moving too fast, panics, abruptly leaves. Because God forbid, we actually are honest with our feelings. Fuck that. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_04

Losers. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

So what do we do instead? What does Shane Hollander, Mr. Canada himself, decide to do? He finds a girlfriend. Movie star actress Rose Landry. Okay, to be fair, she's cool, she's fine, but denial is a river in Egypt. Okay? Because throughout this entire, basically PR relationship, Shane comes to terms with this realization that he is gay. He's not bisexual the way that Ilya is. And even with this beautiful, famous, and actually really kind of kind and funny woman standing in front of him, Shane realizes that not only is he gay, but he is starting to fall in love with just one other person. Which is pretty good timing because at this point, the media circus is going crazy over this relationship with Shane and Rose. And Ilya is straight up crashing out. Like he's watching all this play out on the case.

SPEAKER_03

He thinks it's real. Okay. Yikes.

SPEAKER_02

Insanely jealous, can't focus, can't play. It's fucking him up. And like, as someone who loves yearning, like I hate to say it, I love that. You know? Sorry.

SPEAKER_01

You're like eating the popcorn. I'm gonna eat that shit up. We love pining. We love yearning. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02

So I want to show you the scene of Ilia and Shane reuniting at the Allstorm game. At this point, Shane has realized that this thing with him and Rose is not gonna work out. They're not together anymore. And Shane and Ilya are spending the entire weekend in Tampa Bay at the same resort because of this all-star whatever. I wouldn't know I'm not a professional athlete, so like I don't usually attend. Yeah, it's pretty cool. Um, but after the All-Star game, they have a little chat.

SPEAKER_00

This is episode five now at the 19-minute mark. So in this scene, Shane and Ilya are in a hotel room.

SPEAKER_02

And ladies and gentlemen, after seven years, we are finally sharing our feelings. We did it. We fucking did it, okay? Because Shane opens up about everything. You know this is different. These aren't just heartless hookups. Being with you has made me realize that I'm gay. And Ilya is still deflecting and kind of being an asshole, like, okay, you're gay, so what? We fuck and that's it. Wow.

SPEAKER_03

Good, right?

SPEAKER_02

Impeccable. And Shane says, Well, it's kind of a big deal to me at least. Sorry that I'm being boring again. It's not just being gay. It's you. It's this. Being gay is one thing, but this fucking your arch rival is another thing. Last time, and for the record, I'm sorry about last time, okay? I'm sorry I freaked out. But before that, it was nice. And it felt like we were something. Ilya gets this distant look in his eyes and says, We can't be something, Hollander. And Shane says, Would you want to be if we could?

SPEAKER_06

We can't.

SPEAKER_02

That's not what I asked. What does it fucking matter? I don't think I can keep pretending I don't like you anymore. And for a second, Ilya's Russian defenses begin to crumble. He tells Shane the truth about his family, about the dangers of going home if he were to ever come out. He tells Shane about his dad's declining health, the weight he carries having to take care of them all. And then Ilya does the most shocking, the most outrageous, the most unbelievable thing a macho alpha male could ever do. He starts crying. And Shane wraps him up in his arms, and the two then do the most intimate act humans are capable of. They hold each other. After this night, Shane and Ilya are done pretending, at least with each other. They care about each other, they like each other. But as we all know very well on this pod, feeling your feelings takes time and practice. There is a lot of unlearning, a lot of understanding how to feel safe in your own body. And then we're gonna throw in another wrench into the mix because, oh fuck, Ilya's dad dies. Ilya immediately goes home to Russia and in the wake of his grieving has some fucking god-awful conversations with his piece of shit brother, and it's all just too much for Ilya. And now I'm going to play you one of the most beautiful scenes in this entire show. And it is a phone call between Ilya and Shane while Ilya is away.

SPEAKER_00

And this is episode five at the 35-minute mark.

SPEAKER_02

So in the scene, Ilya calls up Shane while Ilya's in Russia, and Shane is obviously very concerned about Ilya and wants to help him through his grief. But as Ilya's trying to tell him like what's going on and how he's feeling, he's like, Oh, it's too much. English is too hard right now. So Shane says, I have an idea. How about you tell me everything that's on your mind, but in Russian? I won't understand, but maybe it'll help. So then Ilya shares this incredibly poignant monologue, lamenting about his family, feeling his grief, and saying that he has no one aside from this lifelong friend of his, Fedlana. They love each other, sure, but he doesn't love her the way he loves Shane. Quote, and that's the worst fucking part of all of this. That all I want is you. It's always you. I'm so in love with you, and I don't know what to do about it. But again, this is in Russian. So Shane has no idea what Ilya just said on the other end of the line. Shane's like, word, word, hmm, maybe I should learn Russian. And then immediately cut to jokes to light in the moon. Ilya's like, yeah, I'll teach you how to say all this dirty shit in Russian. Ha ha ha. And then Shane says, or how about I wish you were here right now? And Ilya responds in Russian, I wish I was too. So in all of these scenes that I have shared with you, I feel like the common theme amongst all of them is Shane and Ilya are just always so stilted in what they say. When in reality, they have an ocean of thoughts and feelings underneath. They just don't feel safe expressing it. At first, definitely not with each other. But over time, once they slowly build that trust, they realize they need to also feel safe within themselves. This is something that every single person can relate to. But I also don't want to overlook how Shane and Ilya's sexuality adds a very real layer of fear and complexity to it all. Straight couples have such a privilege when it comes to navigating relationships, at least publicly. There isn't any hiding that needs to be done. There isn't any confession or coming to terms with. Shane and Ilya do not have that luxury, which probably explains why it took so long to finally get here. And in this conversation, yes, Ilya is still somewhat hiding behind this Russian language, still not quite ready to fully, fully lay out every single thought and feeling for Shane to see. But at this point, after all the pretending, all the masking and skirting around and hiding the truth, it doesn't fucking matter what is said or not said in English or in Russian. Because regardless of what you say or don't, all Shane needs to say back is, I hear you, I know you, I know how you feel, and I will listen to you, and I will hold you. And maybe that's what makes the story between Shane and Ilya so alluring to watch. Not the grand declarations, but the unspoken understanding that builds in spite of everything left unsaid. It's the way they learn, slowly and painfully, that being known doesn't require perfect articulation, just the courage and patience to stay. And after years of hiding from the world, from each other, from themselves, they finally stop playing this game. They choose honesty, even when it's incomplete. And in that choice, in that stillness, after all the noise, they find something that was always waiting for them. A love that just can't be rivaled.

SPEAKER_05

I love that you didn't show me a single hockey scene.

SPEAKER_04

There's not that much hockey in it. If I'm being like completely honest, there's not that much. Like if I didn't know what this is about and I didn't get all the context, I would just think it's a drama between, you know.

SPEAKER_02

And honestly, I have to be so straight up, Arnes. There's so much on this show. Yeah. And there was this entirely, completely other scene that I wanted to cover too, but I was like, it's just too much. Yeah. And it sounds like you actually really do want to watch it. No, I'm gonna, yeah. So I feel like maybe it's a good thing I don't spoil. Yeah. But just for anyone listening, the end of episode five, what the fuck? Balling. Okay. But I just I was like, there's more to say about this.

SPEAKER_06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Should we do a follow-up episode after I finish? We fucking could. At least in our bullshit intros.

SPEAKER_05

We could talk about it because truly so good. Yeah, I know. I I had a feeling too when I saw in the group chat that you were watching it, I was like, oh, she's probably gonna cry, and then she's probably gonna talk about it. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, I am so excited to watch it, but also like they're so real, like the way they're interacting with each other. Like it just feels like I'm already in love with them, you know? Like it's it just feels like I'm actually watching two people, like having this stilted. I love that word you use, and also like sometimes like awkward and like you're not really sure. And I don't know, it's just like I can feel my chest constricting. Yeah. Like the scene that you showed me where they were in the hotel. They're all in the hotel. Every single one of these in a hotel. Um, but the scene where Shane gets in Ilya's lap at the end after. I was like, oh my god, I'm gonna fucking, I'm gonna fucking ball when I watch this. Like I oh it was in a safe space in my living room.

SPEAKER_02

Yes, exactly. Like it's just it feels so real. It feels so tense. Yeah, like it's just like you are so gripped by this. Oh my god, what the fuck do I do? What the fuck do I say? I can't say it, I'm too scared to say it. But I just I love that this whole show takes you on this journey of like you don't have to say it because I know, yeah, because I feel it too, you know? Yeah, and I think that uh I think that finding someone that can hear you when you're not saying anything, like that's 59 and 61, dude.

SPEAKER_05

Like you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah. Oh my god. I mean, obviously. Like I know all the discourse around it, right? Even though I haven't because, like you said, cultural phenomenon.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05

But like I I remember hearing about how they were playing like the music and stuff, like at hockey games, and how like everyone was like singing along, you know, like everyone was just and like thank you for sharing this story. And I know it was probably a hard one to write because that seems like there's so much in these six episodes, but also the author too, and everyone making this whole production, like I just think that's so cool. And I know we've talked about this before, but like, you know, sharing the stories that are not always front and center or narratives that aren't the popular one, I feel like is such a like all of it, such a brave thing to do. And like even though it shouldn't be. Crazy that it is, crazy that we have to be brave to like talk about a gay couple, but like still the world needs it. Clearly, yeah, clearly, yeah.

SPEAKER_02

I have more to say, and I purposely did not transition into my official clothes because I knew you were gonna go there. And this is the per like I that's I was like, I don't want to write this, she'll say it. I didn't even know where I was gonna go. I want to close by acknowledging this huge phenomenon that this show has been for so many reasons. Obviously, widely popular novel and series on which is based, the incredible job Jacob Tierney did bringing it to life. And as you mentioned, also the actors, Hudson Williams, Connor Story, fucking incredible. They there were like no names in Hollywood. We just found these fucking perfect gems, the most charismatic, the most charming people. I'm doing that thing. You know, like when you watch a show and then you're like, okay, well, now I'm gonna watch every edit, every interview, every BuzzFeed promo. You have to. You have to do that, right? So every single thing that I watched them in, I'm so in love with them. Yeah. I'm s it's crazy. Um, throw them with Harry. Like it's just yeah, you know what I mean? But obviously, the most poignant part in all of this is that this story allowed people to see themselves in a kind of love that is so rarely given this level of care. It didn't just normalize queer relationships, it showcases them, giving male intimacy, vulnerability, and devotion the same depth and softness that audiences have always seen in straight romances. And for so many viewers, that recognition feels personal.

Sob story: Justin from Chicago

SPEAKER_02

I want to take a moment to shout out at one of our crybabies, Justin from Chicago, who had this to say about the show. Crying constantly because the emotions and feelings that Shane and Ilya are going through felt like a buildup of all the anxiety, fear, love, hopes, and dreams I felt ever since I was a kid. Yeah, not the same exact scenarios, obviously.

SPEAKER_04

Justin is not a professional hockey player, okay? He's a dentist.

SPEAKER_02

But just the way it let me feel all of it again. Reliving parts of my own story was scathartic. I hid my relationship from my family for years and actually apologized to my parents when I came out, only to have the most love and support from them. This show is now my go-to for that ugly cry that just feels so good. The booties featured are just an added plus. So yeah, I just wanted to share one example of the impact that this show has had. Justin. Oh God.

SPEAKER_05

I love that. How special. I know. Beautifully said. I have nothing. What else can I add? Again, me saying words. Yeah. Someone's already said them.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. I will say this. You are in for a treat because I I fucking barely talked about the show. Yes. It's been what? Thank you. It's been what? How long have I been recording now?

SPEAKER_05

Thank you. I appreciate that. I appreciate you having known that I haven't watched it yet and not wanting to completely spoil it for me. Yeah. I will watch it. I will I will start tonight.

SPEAKER_02

Okay.

SPEAKER_05

What's your HBO login though?

SPEAKER_03

Wow. Beautiful. I love hockey.

SPEAKER_01

Biggest fan.

SPEAKER_03

We always said.

SPEAKER_05

We always said. Wonderful job.

SPEAKER_01

Should we call this episode like male vulnerability or like us women splaining male vulnerability? Wow.

SPEAKER_05

You know? Women's splaining does not happen enough. It doesn't. But we are here to change that. We're here.

Outro

SPEAKER_02

Alright. Well, that's what we got for you today. That's all we got. Hope you enjoyed it.

SPEAKER_05

Thank you everyone for listening. Yeah, we hope you shed some tears. Maybe. Maybe laughed a little. Mm-hmm. Learned a little. Yeah. Maybe have more content for you to consume. If you like me are so late to the game, maybe we can watch it together.

SPEAKER_02

Let us know what you think about the episode, any thoughts, any uh things that I did not cover but have should have.

SPEAKER_05

But say it nicely. Don't be like, ugh, you totally forgot this. Yeah. Be gentle with it, you know?

SPEAKER_03

Just don't be a dick.

SPEAKER_05

Don't be a dick.

SPEAKER_03

It's not hard. It's it's really not that hard. Sorry, I know this outro really got away from us. Opened up a can of worms there. But like now I'm like pissed off for like a comment we did not get. Calm down, okay?

SPEAKER_02

God. Anyway, all right. So we got that's all we got. We will see you next time. But until then, beer bee crying.